Added: Dec 3, 2008
From: freedombolt
Duration: 1:40
Question to all fellow believers in Christ. And yes, I went a little over a minute. Time flys.
Channel: Education
Tags: atonement christ god justice lds mercy mormon suffering
Rating: 3.00 (4 ratings) Views: 347' favoriteCount='2 Comments: 20
servant4JC Says:
Dec 3, 2008 - God does not answer to anyone. He is the only God.There is no other. Isaiah 44-8
servant4JC Says:
Dec 3, 2008 - Jesus had to suffer because God is a God of covenant.He can not lie.He gave moses the 10 comandments for us to live buy. Since it is imposible for a human being to never break a commandment Jesus came and lived a sinless life. He paid the price at the cross.HE never broke the law yet he still paid the price.Ending the old covenant and begining the new one
servant4JC Says:
Dec 3, 2008 - Jesus never called on his Godhood once when he was on the earth.He walked in the power of the holy spirit.He showed us how to live.
freedombolt Says:
Dec 3, 2008 - Why can't God overlook the law if he is the giver of it? Or does he have to answer to someone or something? Why was the "price" set by God so terrible? Did he want to suffer?
freedombolt Says:
Dec 3, 2008 - If you read the passages I gave in this video, and do it without prejudice, you will begin to see why Jesus had to suffer.
osmiolos Says:
Dec 3, 2008 - "He is the only God."(1) Is Jesus the Christ God?(2) Is Father in Heaven God?(3) Is the Holy Ghost God?now please do the math or explain why math should NOT apply here!
servant4JC Says:
Dec 3, 2008 - God can't overlook the law He is holy.The law would of never been put in place if it was not part of his plan.Jesus came to fulfill the law.Matthew 5 17-20.The price was so terrible because God hates sin that much.Did he want to suffer?God demonstrates his own love for us in this;while we were still sinners Christ died for us.
freedombolt Says:
Dec 3, 2008 - God can't overlook the law? He made the law. Why couldn't he just change it? God hates sin. Who determined what sin was anyway and why? Did God randomly pick and choose thoughts and actions that he would choose to either label sin or righteousness? Read the passages I talked about in this video and then lets talk about them. They explain these things.
servant4JC Says:
Dec 3, 2008 - I read your pasages but i don't think there is anything to talk about in them.I may have missed it but i can't find the point you are trying to make.
freedombolt Says:
Dec 3, 2008 - The passages speak of the Justice of God. God must follow rules. He cannot lie. If he says something he must do it. Why? He's God. Why can't he break the rules? Why can't he lie? Why can't he say something and then not do it? (Besides the fact that he says he can't)These questions lead to the real reason that God is God. They also lead to the "Why" of the suffering of Jesus. If you want I will do my best in a more lengthy personal e-mail to explain.
Defendthefaithorg Says:
Dec 3, 2008 - Freedom, I think it would be helpful for you in future reference to study what the Bible teaches about the Trinity. Maybe pick up a Christian book or two about what Christians have taught about the Trinity. The Bible does not teach nor have Christians ever taught that Jesus IS the Father. You stated that you believe that it was the Father who sent the Son who is God...that is exactly what the Bible teaches. We don't believe Jesus is the Father. Strawmen arguments always fail.Blessings
freedombolt Says:
Dec 3, 2008 - Which "christian" doctrine should I study? There are so many.
freedombolt Says:
Dec 3, 2008 - One more thing...you've got to be kidding about Christians having never taught that Jesus and God the Father are one. That's exactly what most I talk to believe! That is until you start asking questions like, so does he talk to himself? Does he stand on his own right hand? Is he greater than himself? Then they start rethinking their position and trying to get it to fit with what they think the Bible says.
iluv2worship1 Says:
Dec 3, 2008 - God sent Jesus (I believe in the trinity) for His glory. To suffer and die on the cross. To show us that sin is no joke, but is a very serious matter. So serious, that Jesus had to suffer and die. No good works can save us. It's not Christ's sacrifice AND good works that saves us. It's by grace through faith alone. It's His sacrifice alone. For anyone to say that good works + Christ's sacrifice saves us is to spit in the face of Jesus. Our good works are as filthy rags before Him.
freedombolt Says:
Dec 3, 2008 - OK. I disagree. I think you fundamentally misunderstand what it means to repent but hey, it's a free country.
iluv2worship1 Says:
Dec 3, 2008 - Thanks be to God that it is a free country! :)I believe that repentance is turning from your sins. Doing a complete 180. With God's strength and help and grace. But not doing bad things will not save you. Good works do not save, but is evidence of one's salvation. It's is not grace + works..only God's grace that can save somebody(Ephesians 2:1-10)Hope this makes sense :)
freedombolt Says:
Dec 3, 2008 - Very good comment in my opinion. We may be closer than I thought on the meaning of repentance. I do not believe that works will save us either. Nor do I think that they merit salvation. However, as you said, evidence of true repentance is abandonment of sin; a change of heart. Salvation is an individual thing and not a one-size fits all. I think the parables Jesus taught illustrate this. The workers in the vineyard and the parable of the talents for starters. I believe James Ch 2 clarifies much.
iluv2worship1 Says:
Dec 3, 2008 - "Salvation is an individual thing and not a one-size fits all. I think the parables Jesus taught illustrate this. The workers in the vineyard and the parable of the talents for starters."Could you please explain what you mean by this in more detail if you have time, thanks! :)
freedombolt Says:
Dec 3, 2008 - Quickly. Both parables start by saying The kindom of heaven is like.....in both parables there are multiple parties involved. A Lord and "workers". The Lord deals a different hand, so to speak, to everyone but gives an equal "reward" to all. Why? I'm not going to profess to know the entire meaning of these parables but Jesus taught in parables so that those who were prepared to hear would hear while those who were not prepared would "hear" but not understand. Thus not condemning them.
osmiolos Says:
Dec 3, 2008 - (1) Who does God answer to? Is God the ultimate authority in the universe?(2) Why did Jesus have to suffer for us to save us?(3) Why couldn't he just decree that we all be saved?